Line. Fence. Wall.

The U.S. - Mexico border, according to a video on the official White House website, is very quiet: nothing but tires crunching on gravel and the wind whistling around a high, solid-looking wall. But that's not the whole story. Today on the show, how that border went from a line in the sand, to a fence, to a wall.Guests:Rachel St. John, associate professor of history at U.C. Davis, and author of Line in the Sand: A History of the Western US Mexico BorderMiguel Levario, associate professor of history at Texas Tech University and author of Militarizing the Border: When Mexicans Became the EnemySilvestre Reyes, former Congressman (D-TX), and former Border Patrol Sector Chief Eduardo Contreras, realtor in Brownsville, TexasTo access bonus episodes and listen to Throughline sponsor-free, subscribe to Throughline+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/throughline.To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below:See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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Line. Fence. Wall.

September 11, 20253:05 AM ET

[Image: Rund Abdelfatah headshot]

Rund Abdelfatah

[Image: Ramtin Arablouei, co-host and co-producer of Throughline.]

Ramtin Arablouei

Anya Steinberg

Cristina Kim

[Image: Headshot of Julie Caine]

Julie Caine

Casey Miner

Lawrence Wu

Devin Katayama

[Image: Headshot of Irene Noguchi]

Irene Noguchi

Line. Fence. Wall.

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49:05

49:05

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[Original source](https://www.npr.org/2025/09/11/nx-s1-5536953/line-fence-wall)